stormTRacker Podcast
...stormTRacker is your home for in-depth analysis of the Carolina Hurricanes, Chicago Wolves & Hurricanes' prospects around the globe. Host, Tom Ray, gives his insightful perspective & is joined by Hurricanes' "Insiders" Nick Bass, Erin Manning, Katie Bartlett & others to cover all the top stories for your Carolina Hurricanes. Tom is also active on "X" connecting with Hurricanes' fans on a regular basis. (@stormTRacker24)
You should also check out stormTRacker Website, your home for all things Carolina Hurricanes, including videos, stormTRacker Podcasts, stormTRacker bloggers section & stormTRacker store, which includes a variety of stormTRacker branded merchandise.
stormTRacker Podcast
Revamped Defensive Pairings: Carolina Hurricanes Tackle Roster Challenges Head-On!
Can the Carolina Hurricanes overcome their defensive lineup challenges after losing key players like Brady Skjei, Brett Pesce, and Tony DeAngelo? Join us as we continue our Carolina Hurricanes 2024/25 Season Preview & explore this crucial question with our insightful guest, Katie Bartlett. Katie proposes a bold new defensive pairing strategy featuring Jacob Slavin with Sean Walker, Dmitry Orlov with Jalen Chatfield, and Brent Burns with Shayne Gostisbehere. We investigate how these combinations aim to balance defensive strengths while revitalizing Brent Burns' performance and opening up new offensive opportunities.
Sean Walker's addition to the Hurricanes' roster is a hot topic in this episode. We discuss his immediate impact, marked by his enthusiastic engagement with the coaching staff, and examine his potential to enhance the team's dynamics. The chemistry between Dmitry Orlov and Jalen Chatfield also gets the spotlight, with a focus on their complementary playing styles that significantly bolstered the Canes' defense last season. Maintaining this dynamic duo is pivotal for matching the strength of other defensive lines and ensuring a robust defensive front.
The potential pairing of Brent Burns and Shayne Gostisbehere brings excitement and some calculated risks. We delve into how this offensive-minded duo could exploit weaker opposing lines and reinvigorate Burns' stats in a less demanding defensive role. By comparing the Hurricanes' defensive strategy to that of the Colorado Avalanche, we highlight the Canes' balanced and versatile lineup. With Eric Tulsky's data-driven insights and Rod Brind'Amour's strategic coaching, we express confidence in the Hurricanes' enhanced defensive capabilities, positioning them as a formidable contender this season.
With the start of the NHL season just around the corner, carolina Hurricanes fans are wondering how will the Canes do this year. You know the Canes have made the playoffs six straight seasons but this offseason for the Canes was tough. Several top players moved on and this is a decidedly different looking team. In particular, the Canes lost some top defensemen. Brady Shea, brett Pesci and Tony D'Angelo have all moved on. They did add some help with Sean Walker and Shane Gostaspierre, but the general feeling is this Canes D-Core is not as good as last year.
Speaker 1:You know, at the start of last season the Athletic put together their list of top defense cores in the league and at the top the Carolina Hurricanes, number two Colorado, number three the Vegas Golden Knights. I thought it'd be interesting to take a look at this new look defense core, compare them to last year's decor on the Canes and compare them to the top decors around the league and, joining me once again, stormtracker insiders, aaron Manning and Katie Bartlett. Well, you know a lot of folks are looking at the Hurricanes defense this year and they're kind of concerned, I guess, losing some key players in the offseason Of course, brady Shea and Brett Pesci and Tony D'Angelo, who filled in nicely in the playoffs all gone and they're wondering how the Canes are going to fill these positions number one and how are they going to stack up against the other teams, and I thought today we'd talk a little bit about that. Take a look at how we see the lineup coming together and who we think are going to be the players or player that will really jump forward this year.
Speaker 1:You know, a lot of folks have penned the lineup a certain way. They seem to think it's going to go as Daily Faceoff has put it together. Of course that's with Brent Burns and Jacob Slavin together again. They have Dimitri Orlov with Sean Walker and they have, of course, shane Gossespierre back with Jalen Chatfield. Those guys were together briefly when Ghost was here previously. In any case, that's what folks are saying for the D. What do we think?
Speaker 2:Katie. Well, I definitely think that when you look at the breakdown of who they have three left-handed defensemen, three right-handed defensemen and some of the concerns from last season the best way to go is actually to break up Slavin and Burns. Burns needs to be protected in his minutes a little bit more. He's not quite able to keep up with Slavin when it comes to taking those big, high-end matchups, and so, in order to keep the left-right pairings good, I'm proposing that we have a first pair of Jacob Slavin and Sean Walker.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then that would leave as a second pairing, stepping up with the departure of Brady Shea and Brett Pesci. Go ahead and let Orlov and Chatfield take over those minutes. They had two in the playoffs this last year when Pesci was out and D'Angelo stepped in with Shea. Because of the reality of not having as much experience together, orlov and Chatfield took the second line minutes and Shea and D'Angelo took the third line minutes, and Orlov and Chatfield were fantastic in that role. So they are the pair that should be kept together and not broken up. They found great chemistry together and they are ready for those, for those added responsibilities of being the second line. And then that leaves Shane Goss to spare, and Brent Burns for a third pair, which is a super strong third pair lots of offense driving, transition game and yet still has enough size and toughness in the corner to not be giving up too much in their O zone.
Speaker 1:Well, that's certainly a bold discussion, because not too many folks have considered taking Brent Burns from his partnership with Slavin and then putting him back on the third pairing. That's interesting, for sure A couple of things on that.
Speaker 1:Of course, burns has seen his playing time declining, and this is not a surprise. Just a couple of years ago, in 21-22, he had his highest year of playing time at 26-08. But last year was his lowest in 10 years at 21-30. So you can see that the team is starting to understand that. You know they need to manage his minutes a little bit better and I think your plan to put him on that third pairing is definitely a good one. You know, in our recent discussion about the power play, we had also postured that Shane Gossespierre would run the first power play, which again would help in managing Burns' minutes. So I think there's definitely something here that we can talk about.
Speaker 1:But you've also got Walker with Slavin, that's an interesting one.
Speaker 2:Well again, walker is a right-handed D. He is very speedy for a defenseman, he's great in the transition game and he loves to be a part of the rush up the ice. He will take the puck, he will carry it out of the zone or he'll do a breakout pass. But he doesn't just stop there, finding the nearest forward. He will be a part of that zone entry and he likes to get in and find pockets and create offense that way.
Speaker 2:The one place that he got in trouble in last year with Philadelphia and Colorado is sometimes he got a little too overzealous with pinching in or getting too deep in the zone and he'd get caught and he was paired with defensemen that weren't able to back him up too well. But by putting him with slave and that opens up a whole lot more freedom for him to be creative, to create offense with whichever forward line is out there because slave and is not going to be as weak defensively not by a long shot as a lot of the players that Walker was playing with. So Slavin will be there to break up two-on-ones. He'll be there to prevent the other team from chipping the puck past him on the blue line to go the other direction. He will hold the fort, as it were, line to go the other direction. He will hold the fort, as it were, and and that kind of security can only improve walker's game.
Speaker 2:And the carolina hurricanes are a team whose offense starts with their defense, and so if you give walker a chance to create offense, it is going to do wonders, not just for the team but for the forward core as well, because they will have that sort of extra forward with them in the zone that they can use and find open. Walker's also great that if the Canes are four checking and they're cycling the puck down low, he will find those soft spots in between the circles or up high down the middle where those forwards and you know we have great, great passing skills on our forward core they will find him, they will have the vision to find him and he will just eat all season long from those soft spots that he can find.
Speaker 1:Well, walker, just a couple of comments. I think you're dead on Katie in this one. Walker, when he was with Philadelphia in particular and that's where he really started to, I think, take the next level, he played over 19 minutes a game, 19.35 a game. He was plus nine with Philadelphia and you know the Flyers were kind of they were building a new team there. So I think that's a strong performance. He was relied on in all situations. Eric Tulsky, when he signed him, basically said that's exactly what it is. He can play in all situations at a high level. So you know he's the number one thing for the Kansas State. They've got to be able to skate and he can definitely escape. So I think you're right on. If you talk about Slavin, interesting stat on Slavin was that in the last five years he's third among defensemen in the NHL for plus minus at a 126.
Speaker 1:So that just shows you and you know he was outstanding with Tony D'Angelo and Tony was plus 35 of them. So I mean you've got some really incredible reference points for the defensive acumen of Slavin. In fact, you know there was a recent piece done by the NHL Network on the top defenseman, if you saw it there, and number 13 was Jacob Slavin, and that was really based on his defensive acumen.
Speaker 1:If you saw it there, and number 13 was Jacob Slavin, and that was really based on his defensive acumen, as you know, and a lot of other folks had him did a likewise similar kind of thing on D players. Espn had him at number eight, Sports Illustrated had him at 10. I mean, a lot of folks see Slavin as one of the elite defensemen in the National Hockey League and he can play with anybody. As you've said, he's just capable of jumping in and getting it done with any defenseman that the Kings want to put him with, and even Burns, who you know at different times was not as concerned defensively. Once again, a strong performance by Slavin, who had another big year in the plus minus last year. So he can play with any.
Speaker 3:And I would just like to jump in and add that one thing that would be really nice about a Walker and Slavin pairing is that Slavin and Burns are kind of similar when it comes to certain elements of the physicality of the play. Slavin had 55 hits last year and Burns had 41. Nobody expects Jacob Slavin to be a big hitter because he doesn't have to be His stick work is so phenomenally good. But when it comes to having a physical presence on the first line, walker had 118 hits last year. He actually had more than any Canes defenseman two more than Orlov did. So you put a physical presence up there as well, on that line, somebody who's not only pinching when it comes to the offensive zone but also making those plays in the defensive zone that will literally separate the puck carrier from the puck by sheer force of impact. You've opened up a whole new possibility for for that defensive pairing when it comes to what their impact on the ice would be.
Speaker 2:so I liked that yeah, I really enjoyed watching walker last year. Of course he was a trade deadline acquisition for the avalanche so for that section of the season plus the playoffs. I got to watch him and he. He had some struggles, but a lot of that had to do with who he was paired with, um.
Speaker 2:Jack Johnson is not the fleetest of foot or the most agile when it comes to defense. In fact, I saw a stat that in the postseason, when playing with Johnson I think he played 80 minutes with Jack Johnson and had a core C4 of only 48%. But when he played with any other defenseman, any of the other five that was 100 minutes of time in the postseason he put in he had a core C4 of something like 56% or controlled shots something like that. That was significantly better than before. So you give him a halfway decent defender to work with and he is going to produce really good results for the team on both sides of the ice. He really is a 200 foot defenseman yeah, and that's exactly right.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think, one of the one of the things that folks don't know about walker they see him skating. Of course, he highlights that whenever he's on the ice, but he was extremely strong in his own zone?
Speaker 1:uh, he and he's. And he's solid, like he's 5, 11, almost 200 pounds. So he's a stocky guy, he can go into the corners, he can make it happen, and I think your hit numbers are right on as well, aaron, and I think a lot of folks just don't know how good sean walker is or could be, and I think this is why the Canes said we're going to sign him for five years. This guy's going to be part of our future and we really think he's got a lot of upside, and I think that's what's happened the last couple of years. You know, his game has really started to elevate. He's really started to show what he can do, and I love the idea of putting him with Jacob Slavin, because then he'd be able to just go and ramble and do what he does best. So again, and the other thing too, of course, they would be one of the key shutdown pairs, right. So again, defensively.
Speaker 2:And not only that, that would for sure be five on five. You try and get those matchups against the other team's best lines. But it also translates really well into the penalty kill, because if they're used to playing together five on five, it's really easy to put them out there as the first pairing on the penalty kill, to be quickly followed up by Orlov and Chatfield again, making it so that you're not putting quite as much time on ice wear and tear on Burns and letting a pair that's played together already just keep on rolling when the PK rolls around. And you mentioned the contract. One thing I wanted to add is the projection for what Walker was going to get for his free agent contract was $4.5 million.
Speaker 2:So I think that the Canes getting him for the 3.6 is such a steal. I'm sure the five years had a lot to do with it, but especially with the term that they're going to have and the skill set he brings, the Slavin-Walker pairing could be a pairing that works very well, not just for this season but into the future.
Speaker 3:And I think Walker might be a little underrated on the PK a little bit, because last season in Philadelphia he had the third most PK ice time on the team, but he never had that usage in LA. So people didn't see him with what he could bring to the penalty killer. It just wasn't. They had people ahead of him, they didn't have him out there. He was playing, you know, very short shifts on the penalty kill. So I think you know, paired with someone like slave and he's going to be, you know, have a great impact there too and it's, it's just going to be another element that he brings.
Speaker 2:So he was the best penalty killer for the abs after he came over in the trade.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well and I think he can play 20 minutes a game. No problem, I don't see any problem with that at all, you know. Back to your comment to Katie, the five years is interesting. I think there are two keys here. One of them is that he really wanted to play for the Hurricanes. I mean there's no question that.
Speaker 1:You know he was right off the bat once he was signed. The first thing he did was start talking to the coaches. He wanted to get video so he could understand the defensive system. So I mean that tells you a little bit about the guy. And again, I think you know, from the Canes' perspective, he's a guy that you know at that price you're golden. And he's a guy that you know at that price you're golden. You can play him on the second pair, the first pair, the third pair who cares? I mean it's a wonderful deal all around. So I'm excited about Sean Walker.
Speaker 1:I think he was a quiet signing that a lot of folks didn't really kind of. You know, it didn't hit them that hard because you know he was a guy that wasn't as well known but definitely is on the upswing and I think the Canes got him just at the right time and he's going to be a wonderful, wonderful addition for them for sure. Now if we go to the second pairing and I wanted to talk a little bit more about Orlov and Chatfield so interesting thing when you start to look at the defense last year and of course you have the second pairing of Shea and Pesci and you know great guys. But you know Orlov and Chatfield can be as good or better as a second pairing. They can definitely play the big minutes and they proved that in the playoffs. But more so, orlov is a guy that's proven elsewhere that he plays big minutes and he plays well. He has been a plus player for the last nine straight years.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this guy doesn't matter whether he's with Washington, with Boston, with the Canes, it doesn't matter. He's a plus player and I think that's huge. That tells you how good this player is. Chatfield, I think, is one of the players that's going to see some huge, huge growth over the next year or two. He's a wonderful defenseman. If you watch him every day, you realize just how much talent this guy has. He has a huge ceiling, and I mean last year plus 15. Interesting story and, katie, you were talking about it. When Chatfield joined our friend Orlov, things changed.
Speaker 2:Well, orlov obviously struggled at the beginning of last season. It always takes players time to adjust to the Canes system and the way that they do things with their unique defensive structure, and so that was going to be baked into the cake anyway with Orlov. But then you add that his defensive partner at the beginning of the season was Tony D'Angelo and the two of them just were water and oil. They did not mix, they did not find any kind of chemistry or synergy together and you could tell, and they got, they got burned quite a bit um it. I mean, the Canes had struggles across the board as a team early in the season, but I think that pairing was one of the most glaring issues that the team had and eventually forced Coach Rod to make a switch and to make D'Angelo the 7th D and bring Chatfield up to join Orlov and, like they say, say the rest after that Was history. That team.
Speaker 2:Was. That pairing was phenomenal. Orlov went from Minus double digits to being a player by the end of the season, and that is Completely due to the Kind of play that that he was able to find with Chatfield. And that's why that pairing needs to stay together, because, unlike Slavin, who can play with anybody and can make anybody look good, including D'Angelo, orlov is not that player. Orlov has to have somebody that fits with him, and Chatfield is that perfect fit and they need to stay together and they will be just as strong as Shea and Pesci were for the Canes for so many years. We have our second pair and they need to stay together.
Speaker 3:Agreed, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, the other thing it's interesting when you listen to what Orloff said about Chatfield and what Chatfield said about Orloff in a recent interview. Basically they both said the same thing. You know, once you got used to each other, you really felt comfortable with each other and you could just know where they were going to go and you knew what you could do or what you could get away with and how you could play your, where they were going to go and you knew what you could do or what you could get away with and how you could play your game. And you know, chatfield is probably one of the best at covering for roving defensemen, as we saw. I mean, how many times did he come back? And his speed alone would allow him to get back and make you know wonderful defense plays. And I think Orlov is a guy that likes to roll with the puck. He definitely wants to get up in the offensive zone, he wants to fire it, he wants to get into the offense and, of course, when he was with Tony D, he got two guys doing that. So who's back taking care of the ranch? That's the problem. But the interesting thing is, I mean, I think both of these guys complement themselves very, very well they're. You know each other in that regard and I think again, chatfield is a guy who started to show some offense. He scored 10 goals last year. He really started to come on and you remember Tracy with the chatman do was the echo from Tripp, which I thought was fine, but it was coming up frequently because Chatfield really the second half, started to show his confidence offensively and I think giving them the second pairing now will give both of these guys the confidence and playing time.
Speaker 1:Interestingly enough, just a closing point on Orlov. You know Orlov, he is generally a 20, orlov. You know Orlov, he is generally a 20, 21, 22-minute guy per game and interestingly enough, of course, he was signed to a contract last year at 7.75, but he only played 17 minutes like 17, 18. So I mean you think about this and you're going wait a minute. That's a bit of a disconnect. If he's getting that much, he should be playing 22, 23, 24 minutes a game. He wants to play that and he can. He's totally capable physically and has the talent to do it. And I think what we're going to see is going to be an interesting situation where this pair is going to bring some things, perhaps that the second pair didn't last year and I believe as you start to look at this question about you know, is this defense going to be as good as last year's defense core? I think there's a big gain that can be had with the second pair.
Speaker 2:One thing that is interesting. I believe that Chatfield and Orlov, of defensive pairings that had played over 300 minutes together last season, had the best Corsi four percentage, behind Slavin and Burns, which are driven by Slavin and Haskinen, and whoever his defensive partner was, his name's not coming to mind right now. So that is phenomenal work by that particular pair, and I just don't, I just see them getting stronger. There's nowhere to go with them but up, and you know there's a case to be made too, that if they have a really strong season, I wouldn't be surprised if the Canes bring Orlov back to be made too, that if they have a really strong season.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't be surprised if the canes bring orlov back because okay, if that pair is really really strong again and there's no reason to believe that they wouldn't be I don't see why you don't where they don't come back to that again for at least another season or two, probably not at the same price tag, but no we know that well, he'd be closer to that price tag.
Speaker 1:if he's playing 20, 21, 22 minutes a game, for sure he'd be up in the $6 or $7 million range. So it's not that far off. And I totally agree with you on this, with Dimitri Urlov, because again, you know they're going to have cap room. You know that's going to be the situation going into next year.
Speaker 1:And he's a guy that he's comfortable there. They love him. He's going to be a good guy to have to bring along Nikitian as well. So I think the opportunity to maintain this pairing and continue to grow with these guys is a great one, and I personally am very excited to see them, you know, getting the keys for that second pair.
Speaker 1:I really was impressed with their play in the playoffs. They didn't miss a beat and you never were concerned when they were on the ice at all, which to me, boy, that is a great harbinger for what to expect this year in regular play against teams that are much less challenging than some of the playoff teams that they saw right. So I think they're really going to shine, and for sure I love that pairing too. So I think we're in pretty good shape on the top two pairs. Now we get to the third pairing, and it's interesting because here's the veteran Brent Burns Burns. Interestingly enough, one of the things that I found with Burns was that you know he's a guy, that he's important to the team and you know there's no question that he's got to be key again this season if the Canes are going to go deep. And so now he's in a different situation alongside a guy in Shane Goss's pair. What do we think about this parent?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's a big high-risk, high-reward pairing. I feel super confident in the first two, but this one is one where you have two guys who both love to jump into the play, and so they just would need to find that rhythm to make it work so that they're not both jumping and get caught at the same time. But they're both veterans, they're both very savvy and smart with how they play, so I don't think that that should be particularly too much of a problem. And if they can find that cohesion as far as when to read off of each other and who's going to jump, as far as when to read off of each other and who's going to jump, it creates a really big problem for opposing defenses, because which one are you going to cover?
Speaker 2:It used to be that you knew you had to cover Burns or you knew you had to cover Ghost because they were the offensive D on that pair. Well, now, if you have them both there together, you have to play a little bit more honest. You can't cheat one way or the other, which will open up just that much more space for either of them, so that Burns' shot's less likely to be blocked or Ghost has a chance to make a maneuver and get that sweet pass through that he might not have otherwise been able to do.
Speaker 2:So big risk, for sure, to make sure that they don't get caught, but lots of potential for big reward, especially if, as the third pair, they're not getting the big defensive assignments. And so they can really start to pick apart some of those lower lines for other teams. Really really intriguing opportunities if that pair is put together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that there's a good chance that some of the effects of their maybe lesser defensive instincts could be mitigated a little bit, depending on which forward lines they're out with and really there isn't a forward line on the Canes that doesn't have a lot of defense to offer, but you can definitely see which ones are working better, and that would be something they would find out along the way in the early part of the season. And you know. The other thing is that when you talk about Brent Burns, I mean he's such a revered veteran. He's not somebody that anybody's you know this isn't. Oh, we think he's not good anymore. This is the natural effects of aging on a player the reduced leg speed and all of that.
Speaker 3:He would probably see a return to some of his previous stats and efficacy, because the season before this one he had 61 points and this last season he had 43. The biggest decline was not power play points, surprisingly enough. I know there are some people who would be surprised to hear that because they thought the power play was where he was losing points. No, he was still picking up a lot of points on the power play. He lost points at five on five because the handling, the defensive side of that role was taking too much of his effort, too much of his time. There wasn't anything left to really generate the offense that he had before. So you put him like Katie said. You put him out there against some easier lines and pairings in a third pair defenseman situation. He might easily return to giving more points at five on five and generating the offense that way. So that would be a good thing for him too.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, if you talk about offensive power, I mean last year Goss' spare had 56 points, so I mean he really knows how to put the points up. And you talked about over 60 points for Burns two years ago. Now Burns, interestingly enough, in the last five years he is 11th of NHL defensemen in points. So 232 points his last five years, I mean that's almost 45 to 50 points a year. That's a pretty good number. He's definitely a guy that's going to put up points.
Speaker 1:Goss is fair, can skate. You know he's a guy that likes to move with the puck as well Burns. He likes to get the shots, he likes to get in there and make things happen. Of course I think he's one of the best in the league at getting a puck back at the point and shooting it instantly. It's an amazing art that he has.
Speaker 1:But I think Gossespierre could be a nice complement for him. He plays a little bit of a different game and I think it could work out very, very well. And one of the things that this could do and I like the idea of putting them on that third pair together, because now you're playing, as you mentioned, katie minutes against less defensive squads. So you know you're down at the third or the fourth line, you know you're going to get the minutes against those lines and that's going to help the Canes offense in general, because again the D core is going to have to make a big difference offensively. I think that's something we're going to have to watch for. They were one of the top last year in D points and again I think they're going to have to come through again this year with a strong offense and that combination could really be a part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely think there's a lot of potential. Ghost got his 59 points on a team that was not very good last season, and so, even with third-pairing minutes instead of higher, I don't see why he can't repeat that, especially if he's the one that quarterbacks the power play.
Speaker 3:The power play yeah.
Speaker 2:You have him and Burns as the two power play guys. You have the other two pairings as the PK specialists, and so it's very balanced across the board. And when you talk first, second, third pairings most teams there is a very clear delineation.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Minutes wise as far as who's on those particular lines, I think that that difference would end up being has been and will end up being more subtle, especially if these are the pairings that the team goes with, and then you just don't get as much wear and tear. We talk about the wear and tear on Burns. We definitely don't want that. We want to give him every opportunity to keep his Ironman streak alive and to not be burned out by the end of the season. But there's also something to be said for not putting too much wear and tear on Slavin. We need our best defensive defensemen to be fresh come playoff time, and so these, this particular arrangement of defensemen, really has so much balance to it and gives the Carolina Hurricanes a really good opportunity to have a strong push into the playoffs come the end of the season.
Speaker 3:And just to piggyback off your point there about Burns keeping him fresh and then the importance of that. I took a look at the last 10 seasons. On average there have been five entire players we're talking forwards, defensemen or goalies, age 39 and up. Age 39 and up. Out of out of 736 roster spots in the nhl and about a thousand players a year that play, you have five who are 39 and older. So the team has to know what comes along with that territory. They're watching that very carefully. Like tom said, his minutes have already come down, so you know the goal should be to have the best, uh, brett burns you can have when they hit the playoffs. That should be the overwhelming goal. So in the regular season, if he doesn't play the heavy minutes, you're much more likely to get that version of brett burns and we want that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and you know, if you look at uhoss' spare as the complement to Burns, his average ice time is 20 minutes a game in his career, so this guy can play minutes. He's definitely a guy that has played tough minutes too, so I mean he can handle that quite nicely. And again, he's got an average of 48 points a year. So this guy's a talented defenseman. A lot of folks, again, don't know a lot about Ghost, but he's a heck of a defenseman. He had a 65-point year with Philadelphia, of course. He had a big year last year with Detroit.
Speaker 1:So he's a guy that can really get it done, and so if you put them together, I think you've got another interesting potential here, which is, if injuries come, both of these guys can move up quite nicely in the lineup, not a concern, you're not going to miss a beat. They're both solid defensemen, they're both able to move up, similar to what we had last year with, of course, orlov and Chatfield. Now you've got Burns and you've got Gostisberry. You've got a couple of guys that can jump up.
Speaker 3:You almost have the balance to what Rod always says about his forward lines. You know we don't number the lines. I mean, we all know who the first line is but the other lines are often used interchangeably and you can have the same thing where we know who the first pairing is, but you have really two second pairings. You don't have a third pairing, you don't have a pairing that has to be sheltered and played for, you know, 15 minutes at maximum.
Speaker 2:You know we don't have that in Carolina, and that's one of the reasons why the Carolina defensive core has always been so good. In a lot of ways, circumstance would dictate usage right, because if you have an offensive zone face-off, you want Barnes and Goss to spare out there.
Speaker 2:Right Because you win the faceoff back to them and they're going to start creating right away. You have a defensive zone faceoff. Go ahead and go for Orlov and Chatfield, because you know that they're going to be bulldogs on that puck, and go after it. And, without a doubt, slavin and Walker, you can use them wherever, for sure. But that, like Aaron said, that is a really nice balance to have and, if they're with it working more like having two second pairs. The options would be so varied for Rod to use according to game situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and all the defensemen, again they play big minutes. I mean I just mentioned Ghost was over 20 minutes in his career. I mean Burns is over 22 minutes in his career and again same thing with Orlov. And so Chatfield is catching up very fast and he deserves to play big minutes because he's earned the right. And Walker, as well.
Speaker 1:He played big minutes with Philadelphia last year and was outstanding. So I think the Canes have built a top six, and that's really where I wanted to go with all of this. When you start talking about, you know, this defensive core. They built a top six that is outstanding. These guys can be really, really something to watch and, I think, can certainly stand up to the group we had last year. Now I know, katie, you did a little bit of work on looking at some of the players we had last year and some of the new players. Any comments in that regard?
Speaker 2:Well, if you just take it kind of at a one-for-one, pesci was a right-handed defenseman and we replaced him with Walker. So if you look at the JFresh cards that's just one particular reference point that you can use you see that they match up really well. It does look like Pesci is better statistically defensively than Walker, but Walker is much stronger than Pesci offensively. No surprise, pesci was a penalty killer, walker's a penalty killer. They really complement each other a lot of ways and part of the question then becomes with the big difference being that Pesci's more highly rated defensively. How much of that is growing up and playing in the Canes system? Right, because Walker just has not. Whether it was LA crisp on his defense, as he has been in the past. Plus, pesci has been very injury prone and Walker to me, from what I have seen from him, is quite hardy. I mean, the hits that he throws around just tells you that he can dish it out and he can take it and keep on trucking. So with those two I think that at the very least you're getting an even swap in player and, depending on how the offense works out with Walker, it could end up being an exchange in the Canes' favor. Conversely, you look at Shea and Goss Despair, our two left-handed defensemen swap and both of them are high offense players.
Speaker 2:Shea scored a ton for us, especially 5v5. He was trusted enough even to be on that second power play unit and he was great. And when he worked with Pesci they were a good, strong shutdown as well. So you have a similar sort of thing with their stat cards. When you compare side by side, they both produce offensively but at least on the surface Ghost's defense is not as strong as Shae's. You go back and you make that same argument. Look who ghost was playing for last year. He was playing for detroit. They were not a strong defensive team. They gave up a lot, and so you put ghost on a team like the canes that have a much stronger system and I think you will see his defensive metrics go up. If you look at his Jay Fresh cards from before he was traded to the Canes a couple years ago to after that season with the Canes when he signed with Detroit, to now, it goes like this he was low and then with the Canes he got better defensively and then with Detroit he's back with the Canes.
Speaker 3:He got better defensively.
Speaker 2:And then with Detroit he's back with the Canes. Now I'm expecting that to check back up in the right direction. No matter who he ends up playing with as a partner, just being on the Canes is going to make a big difference for him. And the other thing to look at one of the stats that gets overlooked on those j fresh cards is quality of teammates.
Speaker 2:Oh it's in the red, both walker and ghost, and it's in the blue for shea and pesci. Um, so again, you put, you surround them with better players and you let them open up their game a little bit more and play to their identity and I I think that we have a really nice swap on our hands that we are going to be saying Pesci who, shea who, about a month or two into the season, once those two hit their stride. That's definitely my hope and also my expectation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. I mean, the wizard only makes great moves, right? So Eric Tulsky I'm a big fan of Eric's and I think again, I think he's gone out and one of the things that Gossespierre said that he was really excited about the Hurricanes because they came to him first. They were the first ones to go to him when free agency started and he really loved that about them and I took that as, again, you know, eric Tolsky makes decisions based on a huge amount of data. You know they analyze everything right to the limit type thing.
Speaker 1:And if he feels like you know, gossespierre and Walker are going to be the right kind of players he said that very clearly in his comments then we have to expect they're going to be, they're going to fit in the system extremely well and both can skate, both can move the puck, which is one of the big things they look for from the blue.
Speaker 1:In fact, both of those guys are going to bring more of that than the Shea and Pesci guys. I mean they both. I mean, certainly Shea had some offense, but he wasn't a quick guy up the ice, he didn't. You know, he wasn't a very you know he wasn't a fancy player going up the ice and certainly Pesci much more defensively oriented, as we know. So I think there's a case to say that this is really going to be a huge uptick to the offensive side. So you know, I guess, having looked at these pairs, getting excited about them and the combination I mean, when we look like, just in the cold light of day, this defense versus last year's defense and, as I mentioned at the kickoff, a lot of folks are feeling like the loss of shay and pesci, how could we let them go?
Speaker 1:uh and you know you're placing with goss, despair and walker. What do we think?
Speaker 3:I think that that's taking um a pretty negative view of the situation. I don't think it's. I think it's understandable that fans are going to look at it that way. You get used to certain players and what they bring, and maybe you've only seen glimpses of other players or you've only heard things from other fans and you don't really know how to evaluate what's going to happen or what's going on. But the bottom line is that the Canes have something that no other team has and that is Rod Rendemore. I mean his coaching, his systems. He knows what he's doing with his players. He's not going to leave anybody in the lurch.
Speaker 3:I have had the thought myself that one of the things we're not going to see until later in the season and we're only going to see it again like anybody would. Who's not watching their own team? We will see how Shea and Pesci do without each other and without the same system. I wish them the best. I certainly am not sitting here looking at it going oh, they're not going to be good, but it's not a foregone conclusion. We've all seen, you know. We've seen solid forward lines get split up and go to other teams and then they never have that same impact and it's the same thing for defensive pairs when a defensive pair splits up and the partners go off to different teams and they just never seem to find that same level. So I mean, I think that Shea and Pesci will both do well. I don't know that they will do as well as they did in Carolina, and you know, I think that that's something that we just look and see how these new guys are going to do, because these are our guys now.
Speaker 2:So let's support them and see how they do.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I just expect. Every time I turned on a Canes game, I always felt a whole lot more peace than when I watched other games, because I just knew the defense was going to be there, that it was going to be solid and they weren't going to give me a heart attack on a regular basis watching what was going on in the game, and I don't see that being any different this year. This is just going to be. A team is like oh, the puck's in our zone, okay, well, our guys are just going to go get it and get it out and turn it back up and hunky-dory, nothing to stress out about too much. Like I said, they were one of the top teams in the league when it came to high danger chances against and, if not the top team in the league, one of the top with shots against period. And you don't have shots against if you don't have that kind of a stat, if you don't have a really, really good defense and there's just it's not an. It's not enough of a change to be worried about.
Speaker 1:This team defense is going to be phenomenal again this year well, the other thing, that, the other thing that's going to help it, I I think, is the goaltending, because, again this year you've got. You've got Freddie back he's healthy, but you've also got Piotr ready to take the next step, and I know, katie, you're expecting a huge season out of Piotr. I believe that's going to be the other piece of this. You know, at the end of the day and I think you hit it right on Aaron it's a team game, okay, and there's nobody that gets the team side of it more than Rod Brindlemore. He absolutely is magic with that. That's why the Canes have been in the playoffs six years in a row, and deep several times, I mean you know, you just have to look at that.
Speaker 1:And it's been with different players, right?
Speaker 1:He's had a number of different players through that period and it's been with different players, right, he's had a number of different players through that period and it didn't matter who put the uniform on. And I think this is part of what the Canes have been trying to do is they've been trying to find character players that have a certain you know, capability, both defensively and offensively, to fit that system. And that's part of the magic of, you know, tulsky and Darren York and the rest of the crew. So I give them a lot of credit and I fully expect this defensive core to be right up there, certainly again for the Canes. And, interestingly enough, one of the questions that a lot of folks have been asking is okay, what if we have injuries? What are we going to do with this D core? And the Canes have gone out and they've picked up some players and again folks with some experience.
Speaker 1:They got Riley Stillman, who had played with Vancouver and with Buffalo. He's got some experience. He's a solid stay-at-home guy. Of course his dad was a Stanley Cup winner with the Canes. And you've got Ty Smith who came over in the deal with Pittsburgh when they got canceled. He was kind of an afterthought. Nobody really heard much about Ty, but you know Ty was a high first-round pick and he's a guy that when he, you know, was drafted, the word on him was this guy is something else. So you know he's kind of struggling in this game a little bit, but you never know what the Canes can do. He'll be in Chicago and a chance to really find himself.
Speaker 1:And then you wrap it up with a veteran again, joachim Ryan, who is a right shot D. He had been up with the Canes previously for a few games and of course had played quite a bit with San Jose before he headed over to Europe and played in Sweden. So you know these guys are solid guys, they can come in, they can play some hockey for you. And so I think again, the Canes are not kind of outside with, you know, without any kind of options if they have injuries. They've got guys that have been there before, solid defensemen who can step in, and I know that not far down the road, of course, the Canes have some more help coming they have Alexander Nikitian, which is, I mean, everyone wants to talk about Nikitian and they should, because he's going to be such an impact on the team.
Speaker 3:They also have Scott Morrow and he's been practicing with the team and getting ready for all the you know all the different things that they have coming up. I know that he's not likely to see a lot of ice time in Raleigh this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was going to get a call up. So you know, of course, you know to mention Morrow.
Speaker 1:You know he wants to play for the Hurricanes.
Speaker 2:So he's going to go down to.
Speaker 1:Chicago. That's a great plan, you know. Help him make the transition to pro. But he's going to want to be up with the Canes as quickly as possible and this guy is a real talent. Of course, another guy that I love is Charles Alexis Legault. He's going to be in Chicago. He came out of Quinnipiac. He's the guy that's going to surprise a lot of folks.
Speaker 1:This is a big player Again, solid guy in the blue line. Started to see his offense come on strong the last few years in college. A big, big win for the Canes in drafting him, I think. So you know they've got some really wonderful young players that are going to be not far behind and could possibly all of them could possibly see action this season. So you know, when you look at the D court it starts to get fun. But then you know you take a look, and last year I mentioned that you know the Canes were in the top three at the start of the season the Athletic had the Canes number one and they had Colorado number two and I thought, gee, it'd be kind of fun to look at the teams again and what we think. And you know again, the Canes, I think, are right there.
Speaker 2:The Canes defense. I'd be surprised if it isn't the top defense or one of the top defenses. It just depends on how you rank defense. Obviously, I'm also a fan of the Colorado Avalanche.
Speaker 1:I know. That's why I thought you'd speak.
Speaker 2:And the thing is the Colorado Avalanche took a little bit of a step backwards last year on the defensive side of the puck but amped things up on the offensive side of the puck. So when you talk about the Avs being one of the best defenses, it's because when you average out the offense and the defense, it comes out to a nice number. I want to say that the Avs scored, or had, something like 30 more points than any other defense in the league last year, somewhere around there. It just is a defense that thrives on creating offense. They have added Kane's familiar face, calvin DeHaan, as well as former Calgary Flames Oliver Shillington and former Ottawa Senators Eric Brandstrom. So those three are not going to do anything that is going to harm the team as much as Jack Johnson.
Speaker 2:Jack Johnson served his purpose. He came, he helped them win their Stanley Cup. You can make an argument that without Jack Johnson that year the Avs don't win the Stanley Cup because Sammy Gerrard was knocked out. So you gotta have guys like that. Like you mentioned, the Canes have them.
Speaker 2:The Canes have those pieces that can step in if a key guy gets hurt, and that's what Jack Johnson was. But it's just come time for the abs to move on, and so, with DeHaan being that steady, defensive, defensive presence there, and then Shillington and Brandstrom being the great transition guys that they have the potential to be, it's going to be another high scoring defense where they go on the defensive side of the puck. I think the Canes are going to be so high scoring defense where they go on the defensive side of the puck. I think the Canes are going to be so much better than the abs on that particular aspect of the game.
Speaker 2:Like I mentioned before when I watched the Canes game, I don't have heart attacks, I'm just. You know, my blood pressure is good with the Canes game because I know the defense and the goal sending has got our back on the app side. The defense and the goal tending has got our back On the aft side. The defense and the goal tending sometimes gives me a little bit of a panic because they're high intensity. For good or for bad, they are high intensity and so that's just the biggest difference. Both teams are going to be excellent defensively.
Speaker 2:I talk about the abs giving me a heart attack, but there's 30 other teams out there that wish they had the abs oh, absolutely, you know, hurricanes being probably the only team that's like yeah, you got pay on the car, you got devon taves, but we're sitting pretty too, we're doing just fine um, yeah, for sure, and and you know it's interesting I did a quick calculation on some metrics just to see how they might compare If you look at points by defenseman.
Speaker 1:what I did was use the current roster with their points from last year, so you know all the players that have moved into these teams. I grabbed their points and tried to come up with some kind of a sense of it. For points by defenseman, colorado had 213, carolina 213. On plus minus, colorado plus 50, the Hurricanes plus 54.
Speaker 2:Okay, so again very close, closer than I would have thought. Yeah, very close.
Speaker 1:Okay. So shots on goal by defenseman Colorado had 719. The Canes 844. But you know the Canes love to shoot right? That's the strategy, that's the other thing. And you've got hits again very close Colorado at 540. The Canes at 517. So you're flipping coins here. It's really close, obviously A little bit of an edge on the shots, the Canes at 517. So you're flipping coins here. It's really close, obviously a little bit of an edge on the shots for the Canes. But on the block shots a little bit of an edge for the Avalanche 659 to 535 for the Hurricanes.
Speaker 2:The Canes don't block shots that much. When I was looking at stats, that really surprised me and it just goes to show being the top defense and you're not blocking shots, you're doing something else, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and they keep the shot numbers down right. I think the Canes are usually among the top teams for the lowest shots against. So again, these numbers are a little bit skewed because if they're not getting as many shots you can't block as many shots. So it's kind of tough, right. But if you look at that on the defenses just matching up to each other and yes, you've got McCarr and you've got Devontae's, but the Hurricanes, they've got a balanced group and I think that's the difference. If you look at the six of the Hurricanes against the six of the Avalanche, it gets interesting. Six of the avalanche, it gets interesting. And I went through a similar analysis at the start of last year and the big advantage of course was was the fact that of course, colorado had a Jack Johnson. So that was the advantage for the Canes. The third half was not even close.
Speaker 2:No, it's interesting you talk about the hits being so close, but one of the players that had a lot of hits for the Avs last year was Walker Now he's a cane. You know that might skew it a little bit in advantage of the Canes this year.
Speaker 1:For sure. And you know, again, I think you know we've gone through a lot today. We've analyzed several different parts of this puzzle. Clearly, different type of defense for the Hurricanes, bringing in more offense for sure, bringing in folks who can really move the puck up the ice quickly. And I think, in the Canes situation this year, where the offense is going to come more from the blue, you know, certainly creating it. I think that was a smart move and you know, I think they're going to be given every opportunity to make that happen. And again, I think they're going to be right up there. You know, as the top defensive crew in the league, I wouldn't be surprised if they're right at the top because they are so well-balanced, so well-balanced and you know it's going to be exciting. But who knows? I guess we'll find out at the end of the year.
Speaker 3:Just to your point there, tom. People keep talking about how last year's defense you know they were so good and this year's is not going to measure up at all, and they're looking at various things like we've talked about. But I keep remembering that it was the 22-23 team that reached the Eastern Conference final and that defensive goal was not even anywhere near as good on paper as either of these two. It goes back to the old hockey maxim that the games aren't played on paper. So we don't know, because we don't know how these pairings are going to. You know, maybe Rod really will want to have Slavin and Burns together. We'll see how it all shakes out. But the point is that we don't really know. But what we do know is that this team has been to the playoffs six years in a row and you know they have had some success there. It's exciting to see how far they're going to get this year.
Speaker 1:For sure, yeah, for sure, yep. So I think you know we've covered it, uh, from front to back and I feel very comfortable with uh, where the canes are. Uh, obviously there's uh, there's some more discussion as we continue the season preview, uh, content that we've been working on and I'm sure we'll get into some more content very, very soon uh, and uh into some more content very, very soon and continue to take a look at this team and how we feel the Canes are going to do this coming season. As we go through this, it's getting more and more exciting. Of course, we're seeing the players are coming to town. They're starting to work out together. You're starting to see the Canes come together as a team. That we'll be excited about, for sure, again this season and, yeah, going to be a lot of fun. I'm sure we'll be excited about, for sure, again this season and, yeah, going to be a lot of fun. I'm sure we'll be back soon, please. As always, it's been a riot.
Speaker 3:Oh, so much fun yes.
Speaker 1:Great time, so we'll look forward to catching up soon and continuing our discussion about this exciting Carolina Hurricanes team for the upcoming season.
Speaker 2:So close, so close. Can't you taste it, can't you?
Speaker 1:As always, great to talk hockey with Erin and Katie. We'll be getting together soon as we continue our preseason review for the Carolina Hurricanes. If you have comments, please place those down below and we'll respond just as quickly as we can. If you liked this episode, please press the like button, and if you'd like to be alerted of future episodes, please subscribe as always. Thanks so much for joining us. We look forward to getting together real soon, right here on StormTracker.
