stormTRacker Podcast
...stormTRacker is your home for in-depth analysis of the Carolina Hurricanes, Chicago Wolves & Hurricanes' prospects around the globe. Host, Tom Ray, gives his insightful perspective & is joined by Hurricanes' "Insiders" Nick Bass, Erin Manning, Katie Bartlett & others to cover all the top stories for your Carolina Hurricanes. Tom is also active on "X" connecting with Hurricanes' fans on a regular basis. (@stormTRacker24)
You should also check out stormTRacker Website, your home for all things Carolina Hurricanes, including videos, stormTRacker Podcasts, stormTRacker bloggers section & stormTRacker store, which includes a variety of stormTRacker branded merchandise.
stormTRacker Podcast
Carolina's 2C Choice: Kotkaniemi, Drury or Necas?
Curious about how the Carolina Hurricanes plan to shore up their center ice depth this season? Join us as continue our Carolina Hurricanes 2024/25 Season Preview & dissect the team's ongoing struggle to replace Vincent Trochek, evaluating their attempts with players like Jesperi Kotkaniemi, Jack Drury, and the ever-reliable Jordan Staal. Speculation surrounds Martin Necas' potential to step into this pivotal role amidst significant roster changes—think departures of key players such as Jake Guentzel, Brady Skjei, Brett Pesce, and Teuvo Teravainen. With insights from stormTRacker Insiders Erin Manning and Katie Bartlett, we spotlight Sebastian Aho's immense impact and discuss his potential to elevate his game even further.
While focusing on Jordan Staal, we highlight his invaluable contributions, elite face-off win rates, and defensive prowess, despite the inevitable effects of aging. Strategizing around Staal's optimal usage for the upcoming season, we emphasize the importance of balancing his minutes to maintain his effectiveness. We also explore the dynamic duo of Jordan Martinook and Jordan Staal, Seth Jarvis's critical role on a scoring line, and Jack Drury's promising potential as a fourth-line center. Kotkaniemi's journey and the need for stability to unlock his potential are also key points of discussion.
Finally, we examine the future roles of crucial players like Aho, Kotkaniemi, and Necas. With recent signings and prospects like Tyson Jost, Jack Roslovic, and Ryan Suzuki, we delve into the Hurricanes' strategy to bolster depth and versatility. The debate over Necas' best position—center or wing—and his potential trade value adds another layer of intrigue. Listen in for comprehensive insights into the Hurricanes' center ice depth and the strategic maneuvers they might employ this season.
With the NHL season just around the corner, a lot of folks are wondering what's the plan for the Carolina Hurricanes at center ice this year. You know the Canes have struggled to fill their number two center spot since Vincent Trocek moved on to the Rangers a couple of years ago. But they've been trying to do it by committee. Ysperi Kokaniemi, jack Drury and, of course, jordan Stahl all had an opportunity at the 2C spot last year. None distinguished themselves. So the Canes are in the same situation heading into this season.
Speaker 1:A lot of folks thought they might make a move in the offseason to bolster that center ice position. In fact there were opportunities presented at different times that looked like it might be Martin Natchez heading for a center, but that never came together and now, in fact, some folks believe Natchez should be given the opportunity to claim it for himself. In any case, lots of questions for the Hurricanes as they head into this season. A lot of changes. Big players have gone, such as Jake Gensel, brady Shea Brett Pesci and, of course, tevo Taravainen, so this will be a decidedly different looking Canes team. In any case, they have to solve the center ice conundrum and I'm joined today by Aaron Manning and Katie Bartlett to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Well, great to welcome in once again StormTracker Insiders Erin Manning and Katie Bartlett. Ladies, how are we today Doing? Well, good, well. Continuing on with our discussion on the season preview, I thought it might be fun to talk about the center ice conundrum. Of course, the Hurricanes under a lot of fire this summer. They didn't really make any changes at center. In fact, they're going with the same cast as last year and, as we heard some of the rumors around Marty Natchez, folks were thinking OK, let's trade Marty for a centerman.
Speaker 1:If we're not going to play him there, at least get a center that could come in and make a difference. The Canes have struggled, as you know, at that number 2C spot for a while. The last really significant 2C was Vinny Trocek, and they've been trying to fill that ever since. So I thought it'd be fun if we talked a little bit about the center ice crew, how we feel they're going to do this year and maybe some surprises in that group. So to kick it off, I thought we'd talk about, of course, the ace of the center crew, and that's Sebastian Ajo. Erin, what can you tell us about Sebastian?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that a lot of people feel like Sebastian Ajo is somewhat underrated as a franchise center man. You know there was a big discussion among some different people on NHL Network about whether he should be rated 10th overall among centers in the NHL or 12th. You know, and I think that most Canes fans would probably say definitely he should be 10th or maybe even a little higher than that. His impact on the ice and on the team is just so huge and I know that he has already set or is about to set a lot of franchise records. There's just so many you can't even list them all but a ton of franchise records that he's passing people. And there was a funny moment last season I don't know if both of you remember this, but when he passed Rod Brindamore in a stat I believe it was a point stat and Rod's comment was it took him too long. It took him long enough, you know. So that was with a big grin on his face. You know, big joke. But he has. You know he has set a lot of records there. Last season was a career high for him 89 points and he's also been nominated for a Selke five times. In eight years he's had a Selke nomination five times in eight years, so he's still even.
Speaker 2:With all of that, there's still more room for Ajo to grow. He can do more and he will. One of the interesting things that I found out is that in his total ice time he's 43rd among NHL forwards. He does not get the kind of ice time that your top franchise centers get, you know, because of the way that Rod Brennamore has always balanced his lines and rolled his lines, and in addition to that he's 92nd in power play ice time. He doesn't get the power play ice time of a star centerman either, but he's still 14th among forwards in power play points. So that kind of tells you that this is from last season, you know, but that kind of tells you the impact that he already has and the kind of impact he could have going forward as his ice time increases a little bit more and his power play time.
Speaker 1:Well, we talked a little bit about the power play side, of course, in our last episode and suggested that if RBA goes forward with his plan to really give the additional playing time to the number one unit, that that could help Sebastian. That would help him a lot in terms of his points.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it's not just points. I think Katie was saying something, you know, it's not points alone. His impact as a two-way center is, you know, really incredibly good, and I think those are the kinds of things that people don't see. They're looking for the flashing numbers, they're looking for the 120 point guys, you know. But what he can do to impact scoring overall and suppress scoring is incredible too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's very impressive to watch his two-way game. I was looking at the plus minus stat. We know it's not a perfect stat there. You know you have to take certain things into consideration with that particular statistic. But among centers last season Ajo ranked third behind only Connor McDavid and Nathan McKinnon for plus minus. Both of those two players were plus 35 and Ajo was plus 34.
Speaker 3:Obviously McDavid and McKinnon are going to get lots of attention because they do put up the goals, they do put up the points, but they also are more of a liability on the defensive side. They give up more goals on the other end of the ice. That is a lot less common with Ajo. So when you balance things out from both ends of the ice production as well as prevention Ajo has just as much impact for the Carolina Hurricanes as McDavid and McKinnon do, at least as far as the little snapshot that that particular stat shows us.
Speaker 3:And I don't think it's a fluke, because Brendamore does not shy away from putting Ajo's line out against the top lines of other teams. He's not looking for that matchup favorability with Ajo's line, trying to put him against one of the weaker lines or something like that for an opposing team. He's more than happy to put Ajo out against Matthew's line, more than happy to put Ajo out against any other team's top line and say show us what you got, see if you can break us. Because he has every confidence that Ajo, whether it's with Svetch or Jarvis or whoever his line mates, are that he'll be able to go out and shut down the other team as well as produce for the Canes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think I mean we recall when actually A Brindamore was one of the early guys to use Ajo in a penalty kill situation, bringing that offensive player into that defensive situation. That allowed him to show that he can do it all. And you know when you just played those numbers back, katie, I think it's interesting because obviously Dreisaitl and McKinnon had much higher goals for while they were on the ice. So it tells you that you know they had a bigger offensive contribution but they still ended up just a little bit above them on the plus minus side. So that just shows exactly what you're saying. Defensively he's about as good as it gets. And the other thing he's done in recent years, as you know, is he's really enhanced his face-off capability. I think in the last few years he's come up substantially and this is an area that he worked on really hard over the last probably four or five years to get to the point where he's a dependable face-off guy in all situations.
Speaker 2:For the Canes. He actually set his own personal best face-offs last season at 54.1%.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 54 is amazing, that's a good number yeah that's amazing. That's a good number, yeah that's a great number.
Speaker 1:Now, speaking of face-off guys, I thought we'd move on to the next one who is among the best in the league. He had an outstanding season this past year and I'm sure you have those stats as well, erin, but he had some outstanding numbers this past year and has continued throughout his career to be one of the top face-off guys in the game, and that's Jordan Stahl. And Stahl, as we've seen, of course, has stepped in to do yeoman service for the Canes for several years now, and the question going into this year is what kind of role can we expect for Jordan Stahl? We obviously saw him start to see his ice time diminish a little bit last year, but what do we think is going to happen this year?
Speaker 2:Thoughts- Well, one thing to talk about his face-offs. Last season he was 58.1% in the dot. That made him ninth in the NHL for face-off win rates last year and that's only his third best season. So he's actually done better than that twice. So he is an elite face-off winner. It's one of the qualities about him that makes Rod Brindamore trust him so much, put him out there for so many of these difficult situations, even to the point of still having him do the face-off get-off on three-on-three, which is starting to be a little bit more of a problem because of the legs and the foot speed. But it's been his role for a long time to be the guy that you put out there when you absolutely need a face-off win.
Speaker 2:He has seen some diminishment in some other areas, though His points are down. His ice time has was the lowest last season since his age 18 season. So you know that that's not something that is being done to him. That's something that he's obviously aware of and working with, because you know the amount of respect that everyone, including the head coach, has for this player. He's not going to just see his numbers drop without being a very active part of that he had. You know we're talking about plus minus. We know it's flawed, like Katie said, but it was his second worst of his career. He finished the season of minus 14. That's not like Jordan Stahl, so that's just the effects, I think, of time he will be 36 when this season starts, so that's where you kind of wonder what his role should be going forward, and I know I think Katie had some thoughts about that when we were talking about this.
Speaker 3:I think the main thing is just to target his usage where he can be the most effective. We know on a penalty kill. He is one of the best in the league, not only because of his ability to win face-offs, but just how he plays the zone and the space and works to to get the puck out. Especially I liked times when he was paired with somebody like jarvis, who does have a little bit more of that energy and that foot speed, because stall was good at stripping the puck and then getting it up the boards and Jarvis was really good about getting that clear or getting open and creating a rush the other way to take more time off of the penalty that they were killing. But one place that I really think that Stahl still has a lot of opportunities to contribute is on the bump up shift.
Speaker 3:They've talked about this a lot on the Canes broadcast before about how important it is after a penalty kill either for or against to have a good, strong, solid shift in order to not swing the momentum in the direction of the other team.
Speaker 3:And Stahl is usually the one out there for that Stahl with Martinuk and whoever else is playing the other wing Faust or last season, jarvis Svetch. There was a little bit of a carousel there on his other wing, but no matter who was on that other wing, you knew that when Stahl and Martinuk came out they were going to create a really good shift. They were going to keep momentum in the Canes' favor if it was after a power play or they were going to create a really good shift. They were going to keep momentum in the Canes' favor if it was after a power play, or they were going to swing momentum in the Canes' favor if it was after a penalty kill. Because even if they don't put a lot of points on the board, they create lots of opportunities as well as maintaining possession. So the next time there's a shift change, the good momentum can keep on going and turn into scoring chances in the Canes' favor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we talked about this, I mean, as the season wound down. You know we saw Jordan was showing it. He was really struggling in the playoffs at times and I think you know to your point, aaron. I think they're going to have to continue to manage his minutes closely this year and, as you know and we've discussed this Brendan Moore's style has been to kind of have a first line and then the other three lines are very similar in terms of ice time and play.
Speaker 1:Lines are very similar in terms of ice time and play. So I suspect that you're going to see a little bit more action from the other two lines maybe this year as they try to manage Jordan's time. And again, he's a huge contributor. You know the work he does in the trenches, his great work defensively. Brendan Moore relies on him hugely and he's going to be key again this year. I don't think he's done by any stretch of the imagination, but again he's got to be played, you know, in the proper fashion and hopefully, you know, with the correct amount of ice time, because it's just tough for him.
Speaker 2:One thing that, since Katie mentioned this, I think one thing that is going to be a huge thing to watch for and a huge potential impact point is whether or not Jesper Fast can return to the, because Dahl Martinuk and Fast have played so many minutes together over the last two seasons. They have a chemistry where they know where each other is going to be on the ice and what each player is going to be doing on that line. They don't have to stop and think. They just know. And if Jesper Fast isn't in that role and someone else perhaps Jack Roslevic or someone else is in that role, it's going to be an adjustment period for that whole line. So that will be interesting to see.
Speaker 1:Well, one thing we've talked about is the concept of duos and I think, with that line, clearly the duo is Jordan Martinuk and Jordan Stahl. Those guys, they work extremely well together and I think they're a good match. So I fully expect that will be one of the duos we're going to see this year, and we can talk further about that as well. So, yeah, I think, again offensively, any thoughts on what we might see from Jordan a similar year to this year probably.
Speaker 3:I would say that I expect a similar year from him. It was always interesting listening to the analyst talk about how he had one of the highest expected goals for on the team, but the actual production didn't match what was expected. So it'll be interesting to see if that trend continues. It definitely would be nice if he and his line were able to get just just a little more finishing, because if they're creating those opportunities, it really would be a boost for the Canes especially with a lot of question marks offensively Once you get past Ajo's lines line, to get to get that kind of production, because even though Brendan Moore has played him almost like a 2C in the past, his line functions more like a third line and so just a little more production would be right in the sweet spot for production you would want from a third line.
Speaker 1:And I think that's why they were using Jarvis for a period of time to try to take advantage of that kind of good offensive zone work that they do, and he could maybe be the guy that could pull the trigger on it. But I think all of us feel very strongly that Jarvis needs to be on the scoring line this year for sure.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, and we don't know yet what his contract is going to come in at, but I'm pretty sure it's going to be the kind of contract where they're seeing him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny, we haven't heard of that.
Speaker 2:So he's not going to be playing next to Jordan Stahl this year, unless there's you know.
Speaker 1:If he's on an eight times a million deal, which is what's been rumored, he'll definitely be getting some big minutes this year, yeah for sure. Let's talk about jack drury. You know, jury's an interesting one. Um, he's a guy that's uh played very well. Wherever he's been, he's been on a championship team uh, in sweden he was. He also was with the uh with the chicago wolves, of course a couple years ago. Uh, he's a guy that uh at times shows some offensive capability, but it doesn't seem to be his forte. What do we think about Jack Drury and what we might look for from him this year?
Speaker 2:Well, I know he's working on offense over the summer, but I think that we have to be, you know, realistic about what Jack brings offensively he's it's not his primary skill. He's very, very good defensively. His defensive metrics are excellent and his face-off skills are also excellent. He was second on the team last year with 55.3, which when you look at Sebastian Ajo and you say, well, he had a 54% win rate. Well, here's Drury at 55. So that is again.
Speaker 2:You know, and once again, this is why we see Jack Drury out there. You know there isn't a center on the team who's bad at faceoffs, but you see Drury out there taking important draws on the penalty kill and at other key moments. So he did just sign a two-year contract at $1.725 million AAV, which is a great deal for the Canes, so they can put him anywhere in the lineup that they need to up and down as needed. But I still think that his role is probably going to be more that fourth line center this year. But you know, anything can happen. I don't expect to see him with a huge jump in offense unless his deployment changes.
Speaker 3:so right yeah, and one, one of the things that will be interesting to see with drury, as we mentioned, the idea of the duos, with stall playing really well with martinuk.
Speaker 3:Last year and the year before that it seemed like jury had most of his success when he was a duo of him and Steph Nason, and of course Nason is no longer with the team, and so who is going to be that go-to guy that Drury plays with, hopefully gets consistent ice time with, where they understand each other really well, not just when it comes to scoring chances we definitely want that.
Speaker 3:We'd like to see Drury match or exceed his production from last year but with the defense as well, because the fourth line is expected to go out and be that grinder to eat up those minutes to prevent the other team from getting scoring opportunities, create possession in the uh, in the offensive zone, that sort of thing, and so that's what I'd really like to see, because I'm I have a feeling it'll be one of the offensive zone, that sort of thing, and so that's what I'd really like to see, because I'm I have a feeling it'll be one of the new guys that was signed, someone like a ross, levick or a carrier or jost even, you know, doesn't necessarily have to play center. He might be on that line, just whoever comes in and has a really good camp and shows that they can keep up with the cane system and then, uh, matches well with Drury and they can learn each other and anticipate each other and find that chemistry that Drury and Mason had.
Speaker 1:Well, one of the things you've talked about too, I think in the past, katie has been the kind of feisty nature of Drury. He's a guy that you know. He doesn't have any reluctance to get in there and mix it up and uh, and I think that's a key attribute for him, because he brings that fire, he's. He's definitely a guy that wants to get in the mix, he wants to make something happen, uh, continuing, as you say, uh, aaron, to work on his offensive side. It's, it's a work in progress, but he's a guy that would fit quite nicely at third or fourth center.
Speaker 1:I think he could bring a little bit more offense. He actually had 19 assists last year, which surprised me a little bit. I didn't realize that. So he is definitely on the upswing, but a guy that I think is most suited, as I say, to that lower part of the lineup. And it would be interesting if they had a line of, say, drury, with Roslevic and Carrier as an example. I think that'd be a solid fourth line for the Canes and we give them a chance to actually get some offense out of that line, because that's something that they're going to be looking up and down the lineup for.
Speaker 2:It's something that I've pointed out that has impacted the Canes in their last several playoff runs is that they have not had a true fourth line. They've had a collection of veterans. They've had Derek Stephan, They've had Paul Stastny, They've had, you know, excellent players, but players who were not fourth line grinders in their career, and sometimes you actually do need that. I mean, we saw in the 22-23 playoffs they brought in Mackenzie McEachern because they needed somebody with some snarl. So if they can develop a line like that during the season, that would be excellent. So we'll see what that happens. And you mentioned Tom Jack's assists and one of the things that I think people may not realize is that his career high last season of eight goals and 19 assists included two power play goals and five assists on the power play. So he was producing a lot on the power play again with Steph Nason. That connection that those two had was just incredible. So we'll have to see what he can do with without Nason there.
Speaker 3:it'll be interesting to see who he adapts to and probably less power power play time too, because of the way that Brindamore said he was going to organize things. So if that's where a lot of Drury's production came from, he probably won't have nearly the opportunity to equal that this year. So he'll need to contribute more in the five-on-five time. Like you said, Tom, if he has a line mates like Carrier or Roslovich, something like that, that would be a whole lot more opportunity for that. And and the the snarl you mentioned, Aaron, I and you know that feistiness that Tom brought up, you know, I do.
Speaker 3:I do think he provides that in a surprising way that you wouldn't expect from a Harvard grad. He doesn't look like your typical enforcer, that's for sure, but if he feels like one of his teammates is being disrespected, he is going to do something about it and stand up for them. And it's nice to know that they have someone who can fill that role, both from just a hockey point of view as well as from a teammate point of view, and provide a little edge when necessary, just so that teams don't, you know, try to take liberties with the rest of our guys well, and the canes don't have a lot of those guys, so I mean, they're not uh, you know, there's not a lot of folks who can get into the to the mix and start mucking it up.
Speaker 1:So I think definitely he's a guy that can add that and I think that's going to be key. Here's what Eric Tolsky said when he re-upped Jack Drury. He said Jack took tremendous steps last season to solidify himself as a key part of our forward group. Okay, so he's. Obviously he likes him. He said he's an extremely hard worker at both ends of the ice, who can be relied upon in all situations, and we're excited to watch his continued growth in Carolina. So again just reaffirming, he's a guy that can play anywhere. They like that about him. He's definitely a guy that's got energy and wants to get better and I think again, I think he's going to continue to grow. So that's positive news for the Canes and they're going to need that this year, as we know, trying to sort out the center ice requirements that they're going to have and who's going to be doing it.
Speaker 3:So I think he's a great guy.
Speaker 1:He's a good, solid player. He checks in at 5'11" 184. So he's a solid centerman and I think he's got a great future for the Canes. But to your point earlier on that re-up deal under $2 million, I think that was a great deal for two years with Jack Drury, definitely Okay. So we've got Drury that sits in there, likely at the number 4C. We've got Jordan Stahl, who really has locked up that number 3C again, and of course we have Ajo at number one.
Speaker 1:What are we going to do at number two? And we know that the current incumbent, as it appears right now, is going to be a gentleman that a lot of folks are not particularly excited about with the hurricanes, and that would be Ysperi Kokuniam. And, of course, through the summer we heard a lot of different rumors about KK, one that they would buy him out at one point, which to me seemed kind of unrealistic, and the second one was that every deal that they were getting involved in, rumor-wise, kk's name seemed to fly by. So he's definitely a guy that a lot of folks were concerned about, a lot of folks were, uh, is concerned about, and and I, I you know, was very interested to hear what he said when he left the uh, the exit interviews this year, he was not a happy camper and he had some really interesting things to say. And uh, and here they are yeah and uh.
Speaker 4:I think it was just pretty well Tough year for me. You know got a good start for the year and I think we were kind of looking like looking away how to play this year Early on. We're struggling a little bit as a team so I think we found a way and you know my time got a little smaller there and you know when you're winning you don't really change much. So you know that's just reality in this sport. So you know you just need to do the best you can on that ice time and definitely I could have been a lot better this year and just try to forget this year now and focus on the next one.
Speaker 1:And just try to forget this year now and focus on the next one. So, as you heard from Kokaniemi, he's definitely a person that wasn't happy about his performance this year and wants to get a lot better. But what do we think about KK? Is he a centerman that has the skill, the opportunity and the interest and determination to make something happen this year? What do we think?
Speaker 2:Well, I've always been a fan of KK's, and that goes all the way back to his days in Montreal. I think that the talent is there, I think that the skill is there, the size is certainly there and he's getting. You know, he's filling out that size. It's taken time for him to get to the point where he's really filled out that size. Um, and that, I think, is something that people forget. You know, when you start in the league at 18 and you've been playing for three years, by the time you're 21, you know you forget that he was that young and that undersized and was, you know, just kind of in survival mode for a lot of years and and unfortunately, I think that creates some bad habits. So you got to break those down.
Speaker 2:He did not have a good season last year, but we forget that he had his best season the year before, the 43-point career high in 22-23. And then, you know, began this season on the same kind of a track. He was those first 13, 14 games. He was almost at a point per game and it looked like he was taking that next step. So something happened we don't know what, some kind of a setback that by the end of December he looked like a completely different player and he never did manage to get back on track.
Speaker 2:From the fact that the Canes have made the decisions they have made not buying him out, not trading him I think that they're committed to staying with him and getting him to that next step. And one of the biggest keys to doing that is going to be ice time and deployment, because, in spite of the fact that he has taken these little snippets of time on the second line, he's not had consistent to see ice time at all in his career. Um, he, his career average of 1335 was actually his ice time was higher in Montreal. He played an average of 13.59, just under 14 minutes in his three years in Montreal. But since coming to Carolina, his average has dropped to 13 minutes and 20 seconds, and a lot of that is situational. They didn't have space above him for him to move up. They didn't have the luxury, as they were pursuing deep playoff runs to you know, just live with his development period. So this year is a transition year. They have none of that in the way. So I'm excited to see what he's able to do.
Speaker 3:I definitely agree with you, especially on the consistency part. If you look at the HockeyViz player summary for Koch and Yemi, one of the the very top chart in that summary shows who he played with who his line mates were. The longest streak that he had with the same line mates was six games. I mean, how do you expect a developing player like coke and yemi to create any kind of consistency, any kind of chemistry, any kind of feel for the game if you're constantly changing up who his line mates are? And his line mates would go from anybody like Svetch and Taravainen, who are very good at producing offense, to Lemieux and Faust, to Lemieux and Faust Koken.
Speaker 3:Yemi is not going to produce with Lemieux and Faust as his line mates for regular stretches of the season, and so if he's going to play the 2C, first he needs to have line mates that are 2C wingers, that have the ability to produce, and then Brindamore just needs to leave them alone and let them learn each other, let them find out how they fit best together when it comes to different plays.
Speaker 3:And you know on the forecheck, versus zone entries, versus set plays, something along those lines, and so you know we mentioned so we mentioned the duos Stahl with Martinuk, drury with we don't know Coke and Yemi needs his duo. Who is his duo going to be? And when he had that early success last season, the one winger who he was playing with when he put up a lot of those points was Jarvis Right. So I know that the conventional those points was Jarvis Right. So I know that the conventional wisdom is that Jarvis is going to be up with Ajo. But I think there might be something there and I'd love to see, at least in the preseason, for the team to explore what it would look like for Jarvis to be on Kokanyemi's line and see what kind of chemistry they could produce.
Speaker 2:It would definitely be fun.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes. Another thing about Kokaniemi he is a great setup guy. He really is smart with a puck and he sees the ice well. I mean, if you take a look at some of his assists over the last couple of years, I mean he really is a guy that can make things happen out there, and this is something that a lot of folks don't see, and you know they don't always turn into goals, but he made some outstanding plays that I think really, you know, are an indication of one of the reasons this guy was drafted third overall the same year that Svets was drafted second. So he's he's definitely a player that was in the radar of a lot of teams at that time and he's got size.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I think is a strong point for him is his defensive game and, erin, you've talked about that a little bit in the past it is, and I think that one of the one of the keys to realizing that last season was such a down season for him is that he did have some defensive struggles, especially in the month of December and into the early part of January. Now, by the end of this season, a lot of that was recovering. So I think that that was an anomaly of some kind that was interfering with his game and, just judging by the way he talks about his game and the way he has talked about his game over the course of his career, I'm sure he was more upset by his defensive failures than by the inability to produce, because he sees points a lot, the same way that Rod Brindamore does. You get him when you get him. It's not. You know, scoring doesn't make you a good player, not scoring doesn't make you a bad player. So he has that same mindset and I don't think that that was in his mind as much as the fact that he was failing to prevent goals against.
Speaker 2:I think that that was the part that was bothering him the most. So, as long as he can return to that defensive side, I think that that will be. We'll see the player that he wants to be and as far as point projections for him next year, I think that there's no reason we shouldn't see 45 points with decent deployment. Whether he can go to 50 is going to depend on that power play time which, like Katie was saying, is going to be down for the second unit this year. Face-offs for him 51.5 last season. He's been over 51 every year that he's been in Carolina. So for a young player that's not bad at all. And you know again another area where he can continue to grow.
Speaker 3:And, I think, just some improvement on puck luck too. It seemed like every time he was shooting it was just barely off a post or the crossbar, or there was one shot that hit the knob of the goalie's stick. I mean it was beautiful and it just happened to hit, to hit that one spot where the stick was and you just have to feel for the guy at that point, kind of like you had to feel for Drury with all of those goals that got called back for goalie interference or offsides or whatever. It was the same thing with KK. So you know a turn in the puck luck and he is going to be getting more production and and more offense. I just I hope he's really given that chance to to to find those opportunities because I think the puck luck will follow this season.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think that the biggest key to whether he does end up taking that next step and staying with the Canes and staying as their 2C is whether or not he can earn Rod Brindamore's trust enough to play at least 15 minutes a night. If he can do that, everything else will follow. So that's what I'm going to be looking for at the beginning of the season If he's playing in such a way that Rod Rittermore does not hesitate to employ him in enough situations that he's crossing that 15 minute mark on a regular basis.
Speaker 3:And Aaron, do you think he has a possibility of developing into a penalty killer for the canes? Because if he's not going to get a lot of time on the power play, that could be another area where he contributes overall to the team well, let's put it this way.
Speaker 2:I think I haven't looked at the exact number, but I believe his total penalty killing time in carolina is about eight seconds as far as average average over the course of each game, like if you were to take his career average penalty killing time. It's under 15 seconds, it's probably eight to ten seconds and he has a goal and an assist shorthanded. So how do you do that with almost no penalty killing time? It is the same thing that I saw.
Speaker 2:I've only seen a handful of appearances where he played in Finland, but when he was playing for the Pori Aces during the pandemic, when he was loaned to the Pori Aces by Montreal, he played 10 games and had eight points in those 10 games and one of the points that was shared on the Internet we saw the highlight was a shorthanded goal, because apparently this is something he was known for in his younger years, in his junior career that he's not just a penalty killer, he's an offensive threat on the penalty kill. So if he can develop into a penalty killer in the NHL, if that is something that they can get him to do, it would be fantastic. He might take that Teravainen spot, that Ajo, there you go, there you go.
Speaker 2:There will be a spot for sure, because Ajo and Teravainen used to connect. We did see him last year, yeah.
Speaker 3:What was that?
Speaker 2:Ajo and Teravainen used to connect on shorthanded goals all the time.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, yeah, and even Ajo and Nages dangerous on the PK as well. But what I was going to say is we did see Kokeniemi killing penalties a little bit at the end of the year. So he started to get his opportunity and I think that goes back to the whole question of ice time and, most important, with him, the thing that I see is the concern is is, can he get his confidence back? Because we saw him at different points last year I think we recall looking at at Coconemi and he was just kind of thinking he should get off the ice quick Before he did much and we we want him to have the confidence to get out there and do what he does best and again he's got size now.
Speaker 1:He's grown over the last few years. He's now and he'll continue to bulk up. I'm sure, and I think most important is, we've got a couple of guys coming back this year that I think really have things to prove, and one of them is Kokanemi and the other one is Marty Natchez, and I think they're going to be given every opportunity to do that. Now, the interesting thing that we've talked about in the past has been the situation with Coconemi on a broader scale. So here's a guy. They've got for what? Another six years, is it six or seven, I can't remember At 4.8 mil. So they've got for what? Another six years Is it six or seven, I can't remember At 4.8 mil. So they've got him for several years.
Speaker 1:He's very likely going to be in a position where he could move into the 3C as well. If he doesn't, you know, grab that 2C position. He could move into that 3C when Jordan moves on and I think he'd be a nice fit for that. And with his current contract at 4.8, that's going to be a nice deal because you know the cap's going up and that's going to work out very nicely for the Canes. So I think you know all the folks who want to get rid of him should think about the fact that there may be another opportunity if he doesn't grab that 2C spot. That he'll fit quite nicely.
Speaker 2:And yeah, and that's something that it's not. This isn't a. He has to succeed at 2C or they might as well trade him kind of situation. It's just that he has to become the best player that he can be, and I know that I don't think that Rod Brindamore cares one way or the other. Whether he comes, whether his best player version of himself is a, an offense generating 2c or a solid two-way 3c he would take either of those players in a heartbeat on his team.
Speaker 2:So and the size is something that you know whether, again, whether he's playing in the second line or the third line. You need that in the playoffs, we do. We do have the one disadvantage of having kind of a smaller number of smaller players at center. We do, and that's something that you can't do For a deep playoff run very easily. You need somebody with that physicality.
Speaker 1:That alone is Well, and I think when they acquired him, I think part of their thinking was that this guy could be the heir apparent to Jordan, and that, to me, was something that certainly was an undertone at different times, and I think he can do it and I think again, he's a player that he's got the skill. I don't think there's any question. He's shown it at different times. He just has to get in the right space and get some time on the ice and I think it will all come together.
Speaker 2:And he just turned 24 in July. Yeah, exactly, there's a lot of time to grow.
Speaker 3:Erin, didn't you have a stat about for where he was drafted and his usage was like the second lowest compared to um this is the different from.
Speaker 2:I think we talked about another step, but this one this one is something that I I realized because people were talking about you. You know, um, there was a big conversation on x this week about philip zadina. Um, there was a report that he had been signed to a pto by the buffalo sab and then that was retracted. It was not true, but in the course of that, I thought I looked up Philip Sedina's statistics and I found out gee, philip Sedina has a higher career average ice time than Kokaniemi. That's kind of interesting. And then I looked at the career average ice time so far of all of the top 10 draft picks from 2018. Ice time so far of all of the top 10 draft picks from 2018. The only one who had less time career average, less ice time in the nhl was vitaly kravtsov, who only played 64 games and is no longer in the nhl. So all eight of our all, there are eight players ahead of him, including players like Dina Barrett Hayton in in Utah now has played a ton more than it.
Speaker 2:You know it's just in terms of career average, you know. So they're being used in these much bigger roles. It's really not that common for a top 10 draft pick to be so sparingly used, so I'd like to see that change.
Speaker 1:No, I think you're onto something and I think that's going to be a key part of it this year, and he's got the opportunity. Let's face it. You look at the forward crew for the Hurricanes he should get all the ice time he wants.
Speaker 2:It's up to him to take advantage of it, but the opportunities will be there for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, so it looks like right now, as we see it, ajo, kokanemi, stahl and Drury is the four centermen. Again, you know some work to be done with those centers and I understand the angst and concern that Canes fans have as we go into the season, but I think that there's a strong possibility this crew can get it done and I think it's going to be really a growth in the play of those two guys, kokuniemi and Drury, that will really make the difference for them. So it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. When we look at the point numbers again, you're looking at an increase in Ajo, you're looking at an increase in Drury and you're looking at an increase in, of course, kokuniemi. So all three of those guys can make up some of the offense that the Canes have lost this offseason and I think you can expect them to do that for sure. So a good start. Now, if any of those centers fail or there's injury, we have to take a look and see what might be in the on-deck side, who might be available for the Hurricanes.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about Tyson Jost for a minute. I think this guy is a bit of an interesting player. We've talked about Tyson a little bit in the past. You know again, he grew up, played in Western Canada with the Penticton Bees we talked about. This was an outstanding junior player drafted by Colorado in the first round and again 10th overall in 2016. So he was definitely a high draft pick for them. And if you recall, the other player that was with the Bees just two years ago was Bradley Nadeau. So similar route for both of these guys Jost went to North Dakota, of course, nadeau went off to Maine last year. So both of these guys, big stars in junior B, play in BC and again coming up with a lot of Valley who Joe's, came in very quickly and play well I thought his first year for for the avalanche and a guy that has some very interesting skills.
Speaker 1:Here's what Eric Tulsky said when they signed him. I thought it was interesting. He said Tyson's a reliable forward who can play a variety of roles, so they're thinking he might be a guy that can move to the wing play center. Whatever His versatility will help bolster our depth heading into next season. So very clearly, they saw him as a guy that could come in and fill some different roles for them, but he can skate. He's a solid player. He checks in at 5'11", 187 pounds, so I think he's someone that can get some things done and you know he's got some offensive acumen. If you watch some of his highlights and take a look at what he does, this guy can score.
Speaker 3:I think the main issue with Joe's having come from the Avalanche I saw a little bit of him there before he was traded is his situation was kind of a jack of all trades and master of none and so he never really found that identity as far as where he fit in the Avs lineup and I think that's been his struggle ever since with the other teams he's been traded to, and most recently with the Sabres is just who is he? What is his role on a team? There? There is such a thing as flexibility, like you read from that quote, tom, but I think I'm hoping with the canes they will help him find a little bit more of that identity, whether it's on that fourth line or down in Chicago helping with the, with the younger players down there, if our roster hopefully is healthy and full of the players we envision having on it.
Speaker 3:But if he has to come up, I hope he really just buys into that. Identity of my role is fourth line, whether it's center winger, and I'm here to hold down the fort and to create puck possession in the offensive zone and work with Drury or whoever else is on the line to move the Canes forward in the game and not create problems defensively.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when he was with Buffalo that's exactly the role he had and I thought he did a nice job for them. So again, good, solid depth. He's still only 26 years old, he's a young guy still, so he's got some runway here and again, I think, could come in and help the Canes. Certainly in an injury situation he could come in and make a difference for them. So I think he's a good signing. The other guy that we've talked about, of course, is Jack Roslevic. Jack, not the best defensively and not the best in the faceoff dot. I know, erin, you've got some thoughts on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 43% career, it's not impressive. So we're talking.
Speaker 1:Martin H's territory there. Well, he had a solid year with Columbus a few years ago. He was playing center and he had 22 goals, 23 assists for 45 points. So he put up a pretty good season for them. Again still struggling in the dot, and, of course, there's some question as to his reliability in the D zone, but this guy can play and put some offense up, and I suspect that he's also one of the players that could slide into center, depending on what happens with some of the other players that are in there now, or injuries that might pop up as well.
Speaker 1:So one of the things the Canes have always done is they've had lots of centers on the wing, as we know. So they have them just in case they need them, and they can pop in, as we saw with Teravine and others in recent years. So I think Rosovic is another one, uh. After that, uh, there's uh, your, uh, your man, ryan suzuki, who's going to be down in chicago. Um, suzuki again, if he can find his way, could be a player that moves up to the canes and makes a difference. So why don't you uh tell us what you think about Suzuki as well, erin?
Speaker 2:I just you know I'm a fan of the Suzuki family generally. Being a Habs fan, I've watched his brother for many years now.
Speaker 2:And you know, when I've seen Ryan just in the little bits and pieces, you know what strikes you about both Suzuki brothers is their extremely high level of intelligence. On the ice they're just smart players and I feel like that can compensate for a whole lot of other things If you're. You know. You know. I know that Ryan has had a tremendously bad series of injuries and bad luck. It's just been hard for him to get going in the NHL. He's never had a game in the NHL. But if he makes that leap, if he does, I have no worries that he will find his footing because he's just got that high intelligence and one of the really fun things that would be tremendous to see if he did make the jump to the Canes. He is incredibly good at shootout goals, just like his brother.
Speaker 2:That would be a really fun thing to see, so I'm rooting for him. I hope he gets a shot.
Speaker 1:I actually saw him, like watching him in the prospect showcase last year. He was outstanding and he made a couple of shootout goals where I got to tell you the goalies were in the next week, they were right out of there. He kicked week. They were so badly it was funny.
Speaker 1:But uh, yeah, he's definitely a player that, uh, we'd love to see him. Uh, you know he had such a serious eye injury and we'd love to see him really get his, his career back on track. I think he's going to get every opportunity in Chicago this year. I think he's going to be their number one seed and, if he's healthy, I think he's going to get a chance to really show what he can do. And clearly the Canes are still buying in. They re-upped him this year, they decided to sign him for another season and I think that suggests that they also believe that he could be a player for the Canes in the future and, as we know, the Canes are a little thin at center ice prospects, and so it would be wonderful if someone like Suzuki could really get his game in gear and make a difference for the Hurricanes as well.
Speaker 1:So interesting season coming up and looking at the center ice position. There's definitely a lot of questions and it's going to be. It's going to be a fun season to watch as these things unfold. One of the key things, as we all know, is that the Lynch fan Is going to be Sebastian Ajo, and he's going to be so critical If he can take his game To the next level, and I know you believe he can.
Speaker 1:Erin and we've been talking about him hitting 90 and maybe 100 points this year. That's going to be huge for the Hurricanes and, of course, he's a very reliable player. He seems to be out there most games and that's going to be key. Injuries would be a huge hit on the Hurricanes if he went down so clearly. They're going to try to work through with this group as the season goes on, as they move towards the deadline. Depending on what's happening, they may make a move to strengthen up at center as well.
Speaker 2:And one thing we didn't touch on, but it's been a huge topic of conversation on X this week. Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:Got to talk about this.
Speaker 2:There's been a lot of conversation about whether or not Martin Natchez should play.
Speaker 3:Fennel or not.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course, and I really feel like, having listened you know, really opened some comments up to people and listened to what they have to say, I really feel like there's a group of people that are very fond of what they saw back when he played for the Charlotte Checkers. They saw him play center there and they just don't understand how come he's never been given a shot. He's earned it, he deserves it. You know they'll just keep repeating those phrases, but when I ask what does that mean to you, I don't get a lot of details back, Because what he needs to do to earn it in Raleigh, North Carolina is he has to play a stronger defensive game. He has to. And you can look at his defensive metrics year by year.
Speaker 2:A lot of people said, well by the eye test, he looked great. Last year, Well, OK, but last year he actually. A lot of people said well, by the eye test, he looked great last year, Well, okay, but last year he actually took a dip down from the 22-23 season. 22-23 was his best season defensively and it still wasn't record setting. It was, you know, passable, it was good, it didn't cause problems. So if we don't see that from our Nages, I don't think Nages is going to be playing center, at least not to start Now. Would Rod give him some games at center to just see how it went and try it? Under some circumstances it might happen, but I don't think it's the plan. And when you listen to Nages himself, when he talked to Elliott Friedman, he wasn't saying I want to play center. He was saying I want to play center. He was saying I need to do the things to show that I can earn more ice time. That was his focus. I want more ice time.
Speaker 2:I don't think the role matters as much to him as it does to some of his fans, so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 3:I'll just go back to what we were talking about with the duos and that sort of thing.
Speaker 3:I think that Ajo and Natchez which is something not a lot of people are talking about would be a really good duo because they would complement each other well and perhaps, especially in the offensive zone, natchez could take a little bit of that center role with zone entries or something like that, where he and Ajo could create a chemistry and feed off each other and create a little bit of doubt in the defense's mind because they don't know exactly where they're going.
Speaker 3:They're not going to play a traditional center winger sort of game and approach and they're both so highly skilled that they'd be able to keep up with each other. Ajo could keep up with Natchez. Natchez could keep up with Ajo If that were the case. Just like you were talking about Aaron, he wants ice time. So if he's getting first line ice time and first power play ice time, he's not going to care if he is playing center or wing, he just wants to be out there and have the opportunity to produce and put up numbers and help the Carolina Hurricanes win games and definitely still play three on three overtime, because he is just the bread and butter of the.
Speaker 3:Hurricanes on three on three overtime, absolutely.
Speaker 1:But he's also going to kill penalties. This year for sure, I think we can expect to see him killing penalties again, and the more ice time that Natchez gets, the better he plays.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So you know, we've seen that in the past. The other thing about the center ice thing and one of the reasons I kind of slipped past that was that I just don't see it as a serious opportunity. He's just too important on the wing. They need him over there scoring goals. They don't need him worrying about his defensive responsibilities back in the D zone and so on. They got to let some other people do that heavy lifting and he's going to be needed to score big time this year. So I think you know they probably had this conversation. They probably said hey, you know, marty, we really need you man, we need you to score big time and we're going to give you every opportunity to do that. So yeah, he's an option.
Speaker 2:I don't see him and there were two really good points that came up as part of these conversations. The first one and I don't have the person's name in front of me, I would credit them if I did but the first one was that the GMs of all of these teams about a dozen teams that were interested did not make the trade happen because they didn't want to pay Carolina's price, right? If any of them was convinced that Natchez was a hidden gem, top line center or second line center, they would have paid that price without hesitation.
Speaker 2:Oh for sure, Because you don't get a center of his scoring capability, for what Carolina was asking would be highway robbery, so they didn't pay that. They don't see him as a center either. And the other one was that the two teams that Nate just referred to when he talked about teams that had made offers are the ones we already knew about Winnipeg and Columbus. Now I think it's just barely possible that Don Waddell, knowing the players so well, might have promised him that Might have said hey, we'll put you at center, Because the Columbus Blue Jackets desperately need people everywhere and center has been a problem for them. So if he wasn't willing to sign an extension and go to Columbus for the chance to play center, then I don't think it's that important to him. That's just speculation, but I think it's pretty well sounded.
Speaker 1:Agreed? Yeah, I think clearly the message has been given to him. He understands that his role is going to be to play the wing and to be an offensive juggernaut this year. So I don't think there's a concern there and he seems like he's definitely positive about heading into the season. I think a lot of the noise that came out was well. It was his dad and others. Who knows? I think a lot of the noise that came out was well. It was his dad and others who knows. But I think Marty is a guy that can do some good work and, by the way, we didn't talk a little bit about this, but he had an outstanding world championship with Chechia this year they talked a lot about how well he played Some wonderful highlights.
Speaker 2:So, you know he's a guy that can definitely make a difference. Well and again, in that championship I think he played wing and he also, you know he compares himself in terms of the player he's competing with on an NHL level. For some of these you know benchmarks. It's Pasternak, so he's not seeing himself. You know, comparing himself to a center. He's comparing himself.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's true. But again, I think the cast is pretty well set for this year. Clearly, the Canes are going to be counting on some key players to get it done, and we talked about Koken, ami and Drury doing it. So lots of interest at Center Ice this year. Of course, there's more to talk about as we head towards the start of the season and as we continue the season preview. We'll get back together and we'll talk about some more key elements of this canes team and maybe even the chicago wolves, what's going to go on down there this year.
Speaker 1:And, of course, we've got the uh, the prospect showcase coming up, so there'll be lots of information will come out out of that as well, and we're going to continue to try to bring Canes fans up to date on what's happening with the Hurricanes. So once again, ladies, as always it's been a great amount of fun and your knowledge fantastic and always great to share with Hurricanes fans and other NHL fans as well. So we'll catch up real soon and we'll talk to you in the coming days and talk more.
Speaker 3:Canes hockey, I'm sure. Thanks Tom, thanks Erin.
Speaker 1:Thanks again to Erin Manning and Katie Bartlett for their insight and in-depth analysis of the Carolina Hurricane Center situation. We can expect more with Katie and Aaron in the coming days and we'll keep you tuned in as to what we have planned. Again. If you have any comments, please feel free to put those down below and we'll respond just as quickly as possible. If you like this episode, please press the like button and, of course, if you want to be aware of future episodes, please subscribe and we'll alert you as soon as they are available. As always. I want to thank you for joining us here on Storm Tracker. We had some big news this week, as we passed 10,000 views on the channel, and that's all because of you. Thanks again, and we'll look forward to getting together with you real soon, right here on Storm Tracker.
